Forum Post #3

1/11/2023

Due by Thursday, 9 November (end of day), as an entry in the "Comments" section below this post or just above and to the right. (maximum 250 words)

TOPIC

In The Revolt Against Humanity: Imagining a Future Without Us, Adam Kirsch outlines the problematic ways that humans have separated themselves into an oppositional relationship with nature. With reference to Kirsch's ideas, compare the films Enys Men (Mark Jenkins 2022) and Into Eternity (Michael Madsen 2010) based upon the way they de-center the human, or shift our perspective on humanity's relationship to nature.

The connections you make should be accompanied by specific examples from both films. Any concepts you draw from Kirsch should be given a clear and specific definition, with specific reference to the chapter(s) we've read by Kirsch. If you are quoting or paraphrasing, make sure you provide the author and page number in the form of in-text citation.

If you reference another student's post, be sure that you are adding something new to the conversation and not just reiterating what another student has already said. Keep in mind what we have said in our comments on the past two posts. We will be looking to see you attempting to improve upon prior weaknesses and to develop prior strengths.

SPECIFIC GUIDELINES:

Be original. Go beyond class discussions in your analysis. Consider the responses of your peers before responding.
Make a clear, concise point. Support your arguments and ideas with quoted references to relevant course texts. Quotations should be followed by a parenthetical citation at the end of the sentence. For example:

The narrator of "The Tell-Tale Heart" repeatedly questions “for what had I to fear?”--a sign that
his overconfidence on having so perfectly handled the murder may be a mask for unconscious
insecurity (Poe 320).

Length should not exceed 250 words.
Proofread carefully. Spelling, grammar, and syntax are important.
The comments box below, where you will enter your response, does not allow italics. To indicate italics, use uppercase letters. For example, the title of the novel The Sundial would be written as THE SUNDIAL. Titles of shorter works (essays, short stories, paintings, poems) should be quoted (e.g., "The Colour Out of Space").
You can find sample student reading responses here.

Image Credit: Still from Enys Men (Mark Jenkins, 2022)

27 Comments

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Make specific references to the texts under consideration.

Be original!

Neïla Manseur

5/11/2023 03:35:51 pm

ENYS MEN and INTO ETERNITY both highlight the very close link between nature, objects and humans and achieve to de-center the latest from their work. More specifically, these films help illustrate the lack of distinction between humans and what surrounds them. In ENYS MEN, everything on the island is equally affected by the distorted way time works there; the fisher is as touched by the phenomenon as the oven tile. This is a manifestation of one of the concepts of the Object-Orientated-Ontology theory (OOO), that all objects, including humans (they can be perceived as a thing), are equally real and significant (Kirsch 40). This contrasts the usual human-centered ontology we are used to see and work with. The lichen growing on the flowers as well as on the woman’s scar in ENYS MEN exemplify this too by underlining the indifference of the lichen to the nature of its host. In INTO ETERNITY, the radiations, compared to a fire that can, not only burn on land, but inside all living creatures too, also serves the OOO theory. The uncertain results of Onkalo shows that humans are equal to everything else around them and that no number of infrastructures or amount of knowledge can put them above the rest of beings or non-beings; factors like radiations and time still affect them. “Once we stop insisting on an absolute dichotomy between subjects and objects, we can recognize that we ourselves partake of both natures” (Kirsch 41). Both films aimed and succeeded to destroy this dichotomy by de-centering the human from their works.

Zeya D'Alto

5/11/2023 08:22:19 pm

Both INTO ETERNITY and ENYS MEN tell us that our relationship with nature is strained at best and nonexistent at worst.
The magic of the island of Enys Men functions independently of the main character. She is a visitor, instructed to look, not touch, and the island treats her as such. It reclaims everything brought to it, including the main character– she grows lichen on her face– the same lichen that covers the giant rock that stands in the middle of the island and the flowers she came to study. However, she still enjoys the comforts of a (relatively) modern home, using a generator to heat up food and provide electricity.
INTO ETERNITY does so differently. The narrator notes that, one day, the nuclear waste site will be lost and eventually dug up, resulting in the release of toxic waste. No matter what measures we have taken to prevent this from happening, it is not something we can control. The production of nuclear energy to begin with is so far from natural that the planet cannot absorb this waste and maintain its current state. As Adam kirsch states in “Humans are not the Point”, “the millennia-long process of estrangement from the natural world has finally brought us the disaster of the Anthropocene” (Kirsch 39). Humans don’t have a relationship with nature anymore; we have taken from it and refined our resources into products that are unrecognizable from their source material. We will continue to deplete resources until it kills us, and this will be the “disaster of the Anthropocene”.

Vanessa Bragagnolo

6/11/2023 06:55:16 pm

Adam Kirsch explores the concept of the decentralization of humans, described as shifting our world view from being uniquely through human lenses. This same idea is shown in ENYS MEN through the cinematography. Traditionally, films focus on the main character, framing them in a light that makes their importance to the story obvious. In ENYS MEN, however, the protagonist isn’t framed in such a way. She is just another part of the island, no more or less important than the rocks shown at beginning or the flowers she studies every day. This is a clear attempt at decentralizing humans, painting the protagonist as equal to everything surrounding her. INTO ETERNITY is a documentary that also shares this concept. This film revolves around the question of how nuclear waste will be kept stored for 100,000 years. Kirsch undermines this, stating that “if we knew that in, say, fifty years, our entire species would disappear… It would make no sense to build, plan, aspire, create, or reproduce, knowing that it would all be for nothing” (Kirsch 46). This gives an answer the previously mentioned question that hangs in the air throughout the entirety of the documentary: you don’t. There is no point in finding a way to store nuclear waste for 100,000 years when humanity’s extinction is inevitably drawing nearer. This reminds us of our insignificance in the grand scheme of things, how even after we’re gone, the nuclear waste we created will still be there, unbothered by humanity’s inexistence.

Keith Fleury

7/11/2023 07:27:08 pm

Following up Zeya’s point, I agree these movies are both great examples of making us realize that our connection with our world, isn’t so nice. We are currently destroying the world we are living in. As stated in one of the passages of “Humans Are Not the Point”: “The nature that produced humanity is now itself produced by humanity” (Kirsch 20). Meaning that we are harming our very own creators, and we are overusing our only way of surviving in this world, nature itself.

This is shown in a couple different ways, firstly INTO INTERNITY talks about nuclear energy which is lethal to us and our environment. Humans can’t stop themselves from putting their nose where it doesn’t belong and so unleashing this toxicity into the outside world. This human creation was made without thinking about safety, only for its effectivity. In the same text, it’s said that: “In the Anthropocene, we understand oceans, forests, and glaciers as being endangered by us, not the other way around” (Kirsch 22). This passage shows how our earth is being victimized by us and that we are the problem in this situation. In another film, ENYS MEN, it is approached a different way, but the same statement can be said for this one as well. Except in this one, nature takes over her and her resources are very limited as she is dependent on them, but these “resources” are human creations and so nature can’t provide her the comfort that she lives with.

7/11/2023 07:30:28 pm

INTO ETERNITY not INTO INTERNITY, my mistake.

Maé Durepos

7/11/2023 07:43:53 pm

The movies INTO ETERNITY and ENYS MEN both do an incredible job at decentralizing the human through the depiction of the concept of time. INTO ETERNITY tackles ways to warn future beings of the existence of Onkalo and keep them away from it. By showing us different concepts they came up with, such as museums or other warning signs, we are shown the different problems these people are confronted with by wanting to make the message universal. Onkalo will stand for an extremely long time in comparison to us and making the message as universal as possible pushes the idea that the future of Onkalo is so large that we might not even understand the same languages or we might not even be the ones to rediscover Onkalo. This really shows how small our timeline is in the vast universe. We are shown just how long Onkalo will last, even after our existence, giving it an identity and an independence from us, as Adam Kirsch explains . ENYS MEN tackles the construct of time as something completely man-made. Time is not relevant to the island, “[...] all our perceptions are structured by the categories of the human mind, such as time, space and causation.” (Kirsch, 40). Since the story is being told through the perspective of the island, time isn’t relevant and it is not a linear concept but instead an overlapping of events experienced by the island. The human race is decentralized by being shown that not everything operates by our laws and that everything has its own individual experience of the world.

Lola D'Aquila

7/11/2023 08:13:45 pm

ENYS MEN and INTO ETERNITY both can connect with the idea of which natural life will continue and yet humanity will falter, de-centering the human. The island represented in ENYS MEN seems like a character itself. The wind continues to blow, nature grows, and as Vanessa points out, it fills many of the scenes in the film like its beginning. Instead of framing the protagonist, the island is established as a place of solidity. The main character is not the focus of each shot, but a temporary part of it. The island and its existence lives outside of the Anthropocene and does not need the cultivation of a human. It can even be said that the main character growing lichen, a sign of toxicity towards natural life, symbolizes her unwanted and unnatural being to the island. While INTO ETERNITY focuses on the question of the existence of humans and whether they will live to see the day when nuclear waste can potentially be uncovered from its depths in the Earth. Whether this question can be truly answered or not, this fear that is discussed is naïve in its thinking. In the text “Humans Are Not the Point”, it states, ““the Severing,” the millennia-long process of estrangement from the natural world that has finally brought us to the disaster of the Anthropocene” (Kirsch, 39). While ENYS MEN can draw to the idea of the Severing and how its protagonist does not live with the flow of the island but a temporary being there serves as a defiance towards humanity and nature. She is ultimately estranged from the continuity of nature. INTO ETERNITY deals with the idea of the Severing in the fact that its main desire is to protect future human societies from nuclear waste. This completely disregards nature’s timelessness and how humans are centralized in thought of themselves, but in the grand scheme of the world, will probably not live to see nature’s demise. Only further severing a connection to nature through this process.

Maya Besmi

7/11/2023 09:16:14 pm

In ENYS MEN, it shows that humans are just as much at the mercy of nature as the plants, animals, and rocks on the island. The film breaks down the usual idea that humans are separate from nature by showing that we are all vulnerable to the island's time tricks. Instead of using regular talking or explaining, the film puts you right into the island's experience. On the other hand, INTO ETERNITY gives us a different way to look at things. As Zeya pointed out, it shows us what could happen when we make nuclear waste, and what might go wrong in the long run. The film makes us face the fact that we believe we can control and hide dangerous stuff like this for thousands of years. It reminds us that what we do has a big effect on the environment. In the film, we are confronted with images of nuclear waste repositories juxtaposed with profound contemplations on time and humanity's enduring presence on Earth. ENYS MEN effectively compels us to acknowledge the limitations of our control over the environment and the deep interconnections we share with the natural world that surrounds us. It prompts us to consider the lasting consequences of our actions and highlights the urgency of preserving our planet for future generations. Therefore, ENYS MEN encourages viewers to reflect on their place in a world where the forces of nature can exert significant influence on both humans and the environment. In simple words, Kirsch's environmental consciousness is about realizing that humans are not separate from nature, but deeply connected to it. He suggests that one day, humans will no longer be here, and nature will return to its natural balance. Both ENYS MEN and INTO ETERNITY agree with this idea, making us think about our place in the world and the importance of taking care of the environment. They remind us that nature has a big influence on us, and we need to be more aware of how we affect it. As we contemplate these themes, we are reminded of Kirsch's assertion that "we can at least take comfort in the certainty that humans will eventually disappear: Things will someday be the way they should be—there will be no people" (Kirsch, 45).

Sophie Nguyen

7/11/2023 11:03:19 pm

The films ENVYS MEN and INTO ETERNITY both make an important relationship about the environment and humanity by making the individuals adapt to their surroundings which decentralizes the human perspectives.

ENVYS MEN put under the spotlight how the island progressively returns to its natural form, thereby it scatters the focus on humanity. The movie shows how nature retakes areas dominated by humans which switches the understanding of our interactions with it. This reflection that the living world may rebound and reclaim itself, even in the Anthropocene is emphasized by it. Adam Kirsch states in “How Could We Drink Up the Sea;” “"In the Anthropocene, nature becomes a reflection of humanity for the first time,” this somehow gives attention to the fact that our habitat mirrors our actions. It suggests how there is less and less distinction between the true events of nature and superficial activities (Kirsch, 21).

The same effect will be found in the film INTO ETERNITY, where we see the disposables of nuclear waste having a massive impact on the long-term. We come to uncertain conclusions and enter an in-depth debate on the ethical implications of human activities. This reviews how our actions will be irreversible like Zeya mentioned.

Even if it is in two very different ways, those films represent how the interchanges we currently have will produce long lasting impact on Earth. The questions that those movies encouraged link with Adam Kirsch ideas where he delves into human behavior and the ethical decisions made.

Joane

8/11/2023 02:19:41 pm

Following Maé’s post, I agree with her analysis regarding the passage of time and the human perception of time. She quotes Kirsch’s THE REVOLT AGAINST HUMANITY wherein he quotes Kant’s CRITIQUE OF PURE REASON stating that, since all perception is told through the human lens, humans can never truly understand anything about “things in themselves” (qtd. in Kirsch 40). However, I would like to add that ENYS MEN goes beyond this analysis and actually decentralizes the human in a different way. In THE REVOLT AGAINST HUMANITY, Kirsch quotes political theorist Jane Bennett’s VIBRANT MATTER: A POLITICAL ECOLOGY OF THINGS when he states that “[b]y cultivating a ‘patient, sensory attentiveness to nonhuman forces operating outside and inside the human body’, we come to realize that living and nonliving aren’t so easy to separate” (Kirsch 41). We can see how, in ENYS MEN, the points of view change so suddenly and abruptly, mainly because the perspective is changing between the that of the living human and the nonliving island she is on. This sudden change in perspective confuse the viewers and leaves us wondering how we can even define what is living and nonliving anymore. The woman in ENYS MEN has become part of the island, just as much as the island has become part of her, as we can see when the plants grow on her face and scars. On the other hand, INTO ETERNITY attempts to decentralize the human in a different way. They mention on many occasions in INTO ETERNITY how, once all of the humans have disappeared, nature will reclaim the facility and that there will be no one to stop anyone from digging up the waste. This idea of irreversible damage created by humans echoes certain ideas that Kirsch brings up in a different chapter of THE REVOLT AGAINST HUMANITY. Kirsch quotes Nietzsche when he proclaims that God is dead, and that humans have killed Him. Once the toxic waste destroys what is left of the earth’s fragile ecosystem, there will be nothing left for anyone. All there will be left is a ruined earth, without humans.

Noémie Stam

8/11/2023 02:31:38 pm

ENYS MEN and INTO ETERNITY both explore our strained relationship with nature, they both display our presence as being disruptive and unwelcomed. They both critique the Anthropocene, but they approach it very differently. ENYS MEN, as many of my classmates have said, centers itself on the island; the woman is but another object and her actions are but another rhythm from passing of time; it is very passive it its critique of humanities not-all-that important existence. INTO ETERNITY takes another approach; the film does critique the Anthropocene, but it is still in its scope. As Krish says; “In the Anthropocene, we understand oceans, forests, and glaciers as being endangered by us, not the other way around.” (Kirsh, 22) And this is exactly what Michael Madsen does, he criticizes our selfish strive for progress and endless waste as putting everything at risk, nature and even ourselves. The film is still speaking from the point of view of an individual; it has a narrator and asks questions.
This is where ENYS MEN manages to separate itself from most anti-anthropocentric media, it refuses to even speak of the human being. Both approaches are very effective considering their different intentions, as INTO ETERNITY is an alarmist eco-pessimistic film made to last unfathomable lengths of time, and ENYS MEN is an ode to everlasting life.

Édouard Hudon

8/11/2023 03:34:44 pm

ENYS MEN depicts the ideal relationship between humans and Nature, for it is a relationship where both parties are considered equals. Indeed, the woman is being studied by the flowers the same way she is studying them, as we can see in the scene where the flowers move towards her. The plants share the same color palette as her, for they both wear white and red. She undergoes the same changes as the flowers: lichen grows on her the same way it grows on the plants. This state of equality goes with Kirsh’s object-oriented ontology, which states that “we should acknowledge that every person is also a thing, since we are constituted as physical bodies, and that every thing is also a person” (Kirsh 40). The women experiences phenomena, such as lichen, that are normally only reserved for objects in Nature, while the flowers experience human emotions, like curiosity.

INTO ETERNITY reveals the contrast between humans and Nature. It demonstrates the measures humans must take to escape radiation, something that is insignificant to Nature. In fact, the only way they can escape radioactivity is by digging deep underground; they must use Nature to escape Nature. Kirsh describes object-oriented ontology as “breaking down the barrier between subject and object” (Kirsh 40). This movie does exactly that by showing how small and powerless humans are when faced with radioactivity, a force of Nature. It makes them the object instead of the subject. INTO ETERNITY suggests that humans will always be a part of Nature and that they will never conquer it.

Both pieces of work serve to shift the focus from humans to Nature. ENYS MEN accomplishes the task by humanizing nature, or rather, objectifying human, whereas INTO ETERNITY does it by comparing the weakness of humans to the powerfulness of Nature.

Christina Simeonidis

8/11/2023 06:43:12 pm

Humans are unable to think outside of the human mind. Our perception of the world, bound by “time, space, and causation” (Kirsch, 40), prevents our thoughts from going beyond human conscious. As stated in “Human Are Not the Point”: “Our intention to think outside or against our humanity, we have failed, since this is a statement only humans could conceive or understand.” (Kirsch, 39) Any attempt at non-human thought is impossible if man is the one to think.

The movie “Into Eternity” highlights this concept when the scientists attempt to figure out a way to pass on the message of the bunker. They can only come up with ideas designed for human comprehension. But what if humans don’t exist in 100 000 years? What if we’ve evolved or languages have changed? Any “solution” to this question will revolve around the human as we can’t think beyond our human mind. The scientists concur that they truly have no solution for the problem as they don’t know what lies ahead.

In “Enys Men” we see the Volunteer studying the flowers, but at the same time we get a view of how nature views the volunteer. With shots making it seem like the island is watching her, it seems that the movie is decentering the human. But this is still in the perception of the human mind. It is our view of how nature sees us and sets us aside. Our inability to think outside the human mind prevents us from understanding the world to the fullest. We can’t understand non-humans or how they see the world as our answers are only human. We are trapped “in our own subjectivity,” (Kirsch,40). Our human conscious influences the way we perceive and think about the world.

Dorlicas Makuikila

8/11/2023 06:50:32 pm

Kirsh’s assertion, “Humanity's domination of the planet is so extensive that evolution must be redefined” serves as a lens through which ENYS MEN and INTO ETERNITY’s contrasting facets of our relationship with nature expose themselves (Kirsch, 21). INTO ETERNITY points out our failure to be one with the Earth by unmasking the brutality of humanity’s domination of nature. Whereas, ENYS MEN reflects on what our relationship with nature could be in a world where humans are nature’s equals. In ENYS MEN, the choice to keep the main character nameless places her on equal footing with the nature around her. The lack of a personal identifier challenges the notion of anthropocentrism by revoking the idea of a human being’s uniqueness, distinctness and individuality. She’s a being composed of a plethora of other beings, and the lack of distinctness of the two is akin to the sand composed of multiple grains and the sea composed of multiple drops that constantly surrounds her. Her relationship with nature deviates from the domination that Kirsch speaks of and shows what could be in an equal world. This opposes our reality as seen in INTO ETERNITY. The film reveals that our pursuit of electricity has created a non-disposable waste that will outlive us. It also exposes our lack of effective means to address this environmental challenge. This works in tandem with Kirsch’s idea, as the scale of this nuclear waste challenges traditional notions of evolution. For the first time in history, global danger is man-made and not a result of chance; proof of our failure to be one with the world.

9/11/2023 03:04:35 pm

Kirsch’s assertion****

Philippe Beauchemin

8/11/2023 07:41:14 pm

Kirsch writes on de-centering the human : “Solidarity with nonhuman people involves more than just treating them kindly. It means acknowledging that animals, plants, stones, and waterfalls inhabit the world in their own ways, which are just as valid as ours” (Kirsch 39). In ENYS MEN, this acknowledgment is done through various takes of elements of nature on the island as characters of the story or made equivalent to the character of the woman by the length of the takes, as Vanessa pointed out too. This points to ENYS MEN being in some way a co-creation with nonhuman people, as it frames them as actors. The woman does not own the island, she inhabits it : so do these nonhuman people, they inhabit the same world. The approach to capturing the nonhuman people and the woman is one that flirts with the documentary style. This is what ENYS MEN and INTO ETERNITY has in common, an attempt in showing both human and non-human beings equally, thus de-centering humans, through the documentary style. In INTO ETERNITY, the film tries to convey the absurdity of how long the waste will last into the future. In a specific scene, the people start disappearing, fading into transparency. This is an attempt at de-centering the human, for it leaves us wondering about who will have to cope with the waste we leave behind – what will this world become when humans are gone. “How far in the future will your way of life have consequences” can be interpreted as a line on the impact of humans on nature, and the power imbalance in the human and nature relationship (Madsen). This prompts us to have solidarity with nonhuman people, a concept Kirsch writes on in THE REVOLT AGAINST HUMANITY: IMAGINING A FUTURE WITHOUT US.

Romina Roman

8/11/2023 08:03:05 pm

At first view, these films seem to de-center the human. However, the reality is that they do not do it and it will never do. The reason such a thing is not possible is because they were human creations. They both contain human concepts such as time and mortality. This idea can be supported by Kirsch’s statement in HUMANS ARE NOT THE POINT: “Paradoxically, as soon as we state our intention to think outside or against our humanity, we have failed, since this is a statement only humans could conceive or understand” (Kirsch, 37).

It is true that the purpose of the film INTO ETERNITY is for people to think further from their human point of view of the world, which would be classified as de-centering of the human. The film succeeds to show the audience how insignificant they are in comparison to the power of time by making them wonder how the word will look like in thousands of years from then. On the other hand, ENYS MEN also suggests that there are forces stronger, specifically those of nature, than us that will outlive our specie. The omnipresence of nature in the scenes involving human characters shows that the island does not care about the concept of time in the film by Mark Jenkins.

However, it must be considered that the producers and directors of these films were human, meaning that the only way they could see the world is from a human perspective. Kirsch uses the following example to describe the inability for humans to perceive the world from non-human perspective: “When a poet like Robinson Jeffers writes that he prefers rocks to people, he is still addressing the words to people, not to rocks” (Kirsch, 38). Indeed, in this case, the poet represents the creators of INTO ETERNITY and ENYS MEN, while nature is the rocks. This quote suggests that the filmmakers are trying to de-center the human with the unconscious purpose of showing this concept to humans. If they really wanted to de-center the human, they would just have to not make a film at all. Since nature does not stop herself to ask these questions and just keeps going, like humans do, surviving without conscience of human concepts like time and mortality would be the best way to de-center humans.

Arianna Carafa

8/11/2023 10:38:17 pm

Decentralizing the human is a paradox within itself, because as we attempt to explain this phenomenon we are using human cognitions, as Kirsh explains it “Paradoxically, as soon as we state our intention to think outside or against humanity, we have failed, since this is a statement only humans could understand” (Kirsh 37). Kirsh’s text “The Revolt Against Humanity” delves into not only de-centering humans but the human lens and our species of solipsism. The blatant failure of the human kind to recognize the ecological species and organisms surrounding us. Similarly ENYS MEN uses quite a clever concept as this film is difficult for human viewing. There is no real character development or plot or ending for that matter. This in itself de-centers the human because the point of the movie is not to please its human viewers but to highlight what humans disregard. The film's cinematography captures nature and how humans live within it, “Acknowledging that animals, plants, stones and waterfalls inhabit the world in their own ways” (Kirsh 39). INTO ETERNITY delves into time and human destruction, in the context of warning future generations about the human made radiation underneath them. It demonstrates the irrelevance of humans when they are faced with concepts like time. Leaving viewers with unanswered questions on how we will keep future generations safe from this nuclear power. Circling back to my initial quotation, how can we create pieces of cinema focused on de-centering our species when they are created for humans themselves. This explains how decentering the human is paradoxical, humans can reflect on these films and texts however it won't make the human lens any less egotistical as that would abstract our way of living.

Gill Coscia

9/11/2023 04:43:46 pm

In “Humans Are Not the Point”, Kirsch attempts to shift our perspective on humanity’s relationship to nature in mentioning the Severing. He explains this as, “a millennia long process of estrangement from the natural world that has finally brought us to the disaster of the Anthropocene.” (Kirsch, 39) This is a prevalent factor when looking upon viewing our relationship to nature as it’s allowed us to realize that we aren’t the source of nature’s survival. In ENYS MEN, written by Mark Jenkins, we observe this through the protagonist’s routine of checking on the flowers daily. Every day she sticks a thermometer beside the ground where the flowers are growing and drops a rock in this big hole in the ground. Through this, we can grasp how the women’s isolation relies solely off those tasks since it allows her to distract herself from the loneliness she often faces. This drives the protagonist to find purpose in being the only being on that land and portrays how nature will always remain despite her being present or not. INTO ETERNITY, however, depicts humanity's reliance on nature in a different way. They were using nature solely to manipulate it in a way that would be useful for future humans to come. This only further proves humans' ignorance towards nature and how they use it purely for their own good.

Emanuela Guberaj

9/11/2023 05:41:42 pm

In both ENYS MEN and INTO ETERNITY, as many have mentioned, we see the relationship between time and the environment. By doing this, the producers/authors try to de-center humans however, as Arianna stated: “Decentralizing the human is a paradox within itself, because as we attempt to explain this phenomenon we’re using human cognitions” which is true to a certain extent .
In ENYS MEN, we see short clips of scenes, most of them being from the island, which seem to be a type of layering. For example we see multiple shots of the woman but in different time periods. It can be said that this is how the island portrays time which clearly doesn’t make sense for the human brain.
In INTO ETERNITY, the dreadful substance that we’ve brought to earth, as scientists said, won't start to disappear for another 100000 years! This shows that it’ll outlast us by a lot, by a number that once more is extremely difficult for us to comprehend.
Adam Kirsch in HUMANS ARE NOT THE POINT said: “According to Kant, we have no way of knowing anything about ‘things in themselves’ since all our perceptions are structured by the categories of the human mind, such as time, space, and causation” (Kirsch 40). I believe that both movies/documentaries kind of go against this statement because they indeed use a human concept, but in a way that our brain cannot perceive, so it’s a human concept (time) but used to remove the attention from us.

Kristal Ng

9/11/2023 08:16:52 pm

INTO ETERNITY and ENYS MEN presents the concept of time and its implications for human existence. INTO ETERNITY focuses on the long-term consequences of human actions, particularly the story of radioactive waste in the Onkalo repository which poses a threat to the environment and future generations. As Kirsch states, "Humans have the unfortunate distinction of being the most destructive and harmful species on earth"(45) - where we are the ones to destroy our resources that we depend on for our existence. It was depicted through this film, highlighting the tensions between human achievements and the fragility of the nature world, emphasizing our responsibility to consider the impact of our actions. Even the most advanced technologies such as the radioactive cylinders stored in the underwater tanks, can be no match for the environmental disasters like erosions and tectonic planks. Madsen’s questions related to the expenses that go beyond human lifetimes and historical records to explore our moral obligations for the future. ENYS MEN explores the finite nature of human existence and our connection to the paranormal world. The clips of the abandoned railways covered by grass and the fungus growing on the Volunteer's skin serves as a reminder that even our creations are replications of Nature and our tradition becomes a forgotten relic of our existence. "[...] disappearance of humanity would not deprive the universe of anything unique or valuable" (Kirsch 45) - states that the natural phenomena continues to exist with or without us. Ultimately, both films suggest that humans are not separate from the natural world and are subjected to the same laws of destruction and renewal.

Yikai Fu

9/11/2023 08:17:48 pm

Generally, humans have considered themselves physically distinct and separate from the rest of the natural world, which has led to what Morton describes as “The Severing” in Kirsch’s THE REVOLT AGAINST HUMANITY. ENY’S MEN and INTO ETERNITY remind us that the boundaries between the two worlds may not be so clear.

In ENY’S MEN, the sudden appearance of lichen on the protagonist’s body does not seem to faze her, which points to the reality that our bodies are the homes of millions of organisms, and so to be shocked by the lichen would be inconsistent with the relationship she has with the rest of her body. The growth can also be seen as a reclaiming of her body, a reminder that it doesn’t really belong to her but to nature. The use of moss/lichen is significant because its spread is gradual yet persistent, and even after she dies it will most likely continue to live, like the rest of the island.

In INTO ETERNITY, radiation is described as an unavoidable fire that burns within us and all other organisms, a spirit-like energy capable of passing through the human body. This description is a reminder that there is not much of a separation between humans and the outside world; radiation is indiscriminate, and humans are not above it. The Earth is connected to us, or rather we are connected to it. Our mistreatment of it extends to us; it is as if the planet is like another one of our limbs: anything that happens to it will eventually spread.

Emily Hebel

9/11/2023 09:31:23 pm

Following Ariana, Ramina, and Emanuela’s posts, both Michael Madsen’s INTO ETERNITY and Mark Jenkins’ ENYS MEN, it is true that humans cannot be de-centered from the films they produce for humans. Rather than de-centering the human, both films change their audiences' perspectives on the relationship between humanity and nature.

Adam Kirsch states in the first chapter of his book called THE REVOLT AGAINST HUMANITY: IMAGINING A FUTURE WITHOUT US “[...] humanity can no longer be considered a part of creation or nature [...] it must be seen as an anti-natural force” (Kirsch 19). In INTO ETERNITY, humans are an “anti-natural force” that transforms natural elements like uranium into weapons of mass destruction (Kirsch 19). This film also alters the perspective of its viewers on humanity’s relationship with nature by informing them that post-humans may roam the Earth in their place because of extinction caused by humans (whether it be climate change, nuclear war, or something else). Nature will prevail by eradicating humans that come in contact with uranium and other toxic elements.

In ENYS MEN, nature attempts to reclaim its dominion over humanity, for instance: when lichen grows on The Volunteer as it does on a rock. She is an “anti-natural force” on the island because she resides in a house that relies on gas which is produced by exploiting natural elements (Kirsch 19).

Both films shift our viewpoint on humanity’s relationship with nature by exemplifying the consequences of humans exploiting nature: nature’s reclamation of the Earth.

It is important to note that this forum post is also written by a human; therefore neither an analysis that claims that the films de-center humans can be fully realized.

Léa Mukadi

9/11/2023 10:45:12 pm

ENYS MEN decentres humans by showing a world with no superiority between the different beings of the earth. The movie portrays the same level of vulnerability between the Homo sapiens and the organic beings, like the flower the main character cut for herself that grows again. Nature, being the narrator of the story and observing the main character’s everyday actions. INTO ETERNITY, however, shows a world ruined by the humankind, polluted by the nuclear waste that stays in the air. ENYS MEN suggests object-oriented ontology, presenting the independence that nature seems to experience in this all-at-once chronological universe, “…reflecting Morton’s core argument: that we should recognize in non-human and even non-organic beings the full reality that we ordinarily grant only to Homo sapiens” (Kirsch 37). INTO ETERNITY seems to be encouraging this view of “Extinction is the logical conclusion of alienation” (Kirsch 38). Alienation, meaning the “dehumanizing effects of labor in a capitalist economy” (Kirsch 38).

In other words, “Humans Are Not the Point” crosses two possible pathways of life: a decentred life with the collaboration of nature and beings and a decentred life with humans close to extinction. ENYS MEN presents a snippet of our lives if we collaborated with nature and INTO ETERNITY presents the consequences of our lack of collaboration.

Lilian Yates

9/11/2023 10:59:35 pm

Both ENYS MEN and INTO ETERNITY destabilize the human perspective. In INTO ETERNITY, the people building Onkalo theorize on how to communicate with whatever resides on earth in 100 000 years. This is futile since, as Chrsitina points out, we have no way of communicating that transcends humanity. 100 000 years from now we will be gone, and we have no way of explaining what we leave behind. The film is a reflection on our legacy and how little control we have over it. Kirsch points out in THE REVOLT AGAINST HUMANITY that “the meaningfulness of human life depends on our belief that humanity will go on and on indefinitely” (Kirsch 46). The film shatters the illusion that humanity is eternal when using such grand scales of time, leaving the viewer to question the point of our existence in the first place. Not only will we be extinct, but nothing we produce will mean anything to those future observervers either. ENYS MEN de-centers humans in a different way. It treats both time and nature as constants acting upon everything all at once. Arianna mentions that the film “highlights what humans disregard”. Even beyond that, I would say it highlights what humans have no control over. The protagonist cannot fight the touch of lichen, and she has no desire to either. Additionally, time rearranges itself as it pleases, and she moves along with it. The woman herself is as interesting a character as the flower, the lichen, the rock, and the ocean. There is no need to point out why humanity is insignificant because the film insinuates that with its very narrative

Heidi Schaffhauser

9/11/2023 11:40:19 pm

"the meaningfulness of human life depends on our belief that humanity will go on and on indefinitely,"(kirsch 46) becomes an relevant backdrop to these films. Both Enys Men and Into Eternity disrupt this belief, urging audiences to reconsider their assumptions about human centrality. In doing so, they emphasize the impermanence of our existence and compel us to acknowledge the how humanity is connected to a broader scale of nature—a perspective that transcends the human-centric narrative and fosters a deeper understanding of our place in the world.

Diana Kryuchkov

9/11/2023 11:48:38 pm

Despite their disparate portrayals, both ENYS MEN and INTO ETERNITY criticize the Anthropocene; whether this is highlighted through the brute depiction of the timeless memories of the island, in the relation between the human and the non-human anchoring to nature itself, or the uncertain notion of the future beings – not necessarily human – to discover the buried Onkalo, as the present-time humans attempt to push them away from opening the hazardous tomb. In ENYS MEN, all shots are filmed from an outsider’s neutral point of view, which could be argued to serve as an emphasis on the Object-Oriented-Ontology (OOO) theory, which Kirsch puts it to be a ‘distinction between object and subject’, or in the film’s case, the distinction between the force of nature (object) and the view of nature (subject) (Kirsch 40). In her post, Yikai mentioned the sudden appearance of the lichen on the protagonist’s body to be a way to portray nature’s ‘reclaiming’ of its own beings. This also suggests the idea that our interaction with nature is actually one-sided – we are simply adhering to its laws and manners. Realistically, we have no power over it. Similarly, INTO ETERNITY warns some sort of future generation of beings, human or not, about the deadly catacombs of the Onkalo. By addressing this unknown future, the film also makes allusion to Morton’s core argument about the oxymoronic subtite of Humankind – as defined by Kirsch himself – that “[…] we should recognize in nonhuman and even non organic beings the full reality that we ordinarily grant only to Homo sapiens” (Kirsch 38). The notion of time is such a relative aspect of our everyday life that we often, as humans, fail to understand its true meaning. Indeed, chronological order is a very human-centered way of thinking since we try to compare it with our lifespan. However, in its rooted definition, time is but a mere concept of the physical world. As such, whatever we do, and whatever happens to us in 100 000 years, nothing will ever dominate nature’s passiveness. We are like actors in a play, and once our scene is complete, we must get off the stage and leave place for the continuation; for a new era to unfold.

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